Stephen and David invite Gary Bernier and Maurning Mayzes to sample a bottle. The result – 4 whisk(e)y sommeliers and lots of opinions.
Dave Young:
Welcome to the Empire Builders Podcast, teaching business owners the not-so-secret techniques that took famous businesses from mom and pop to major brands. Stephen Semple is a marketing consultant, story collector, and storyteller. I’m Stephen’s sidekick and business partner, Dave Young.
Stephen Semple:
All right. Stephen Semple and this is the bonus edition of the Uncle Nearest Podcast from the Empire Builders Podcast. I’m here with David Young, who you guys all know, I do the podcast with me but we have two special guests. We have Gary Bernier, and Morning Mays, both of whom are whiskey sommeliers along with David and myself.
Stephen Semple:
We thought since we had this great podcast on Uncle Nearest and a fabulous story and if you haven’t listened to it, you really want to go give it a listen but we thought you know what? We can’t talk about whiskey and just talk about whiskey. That just seems so very, very, very wrong. Especially when we’ve got a couple of people who are trained in whiskey. It brings a cool perspective because all four of us have very, very different taste profiles. This is going to be fun.
Stephen Semple:
In particular, Gary being with us because Gary’s got his own whiskey YouTube channel. Hey, Gary.
Gary Bernier:
Hey, Steve. Thanks for having me. Looking forward to tasting the Uncle Nearest with the rest of you.
Stephen Semple:
Yeah. You know, we recorded this podcast months ago and it’s been really hard. This bottle has been sitting on my shelf unopened, because I said I wouldn’t open it until we did this. Morning continually comes over and says, “When are we going to drink that whiskey?” Now’s the time.
Morning Mays:
Now to preface it, I did request a pour be made about 15 minutes ago, because I find some whiskeys take time.
Dave Young:
Really?
Stephen Semple:
They do.
Gary Bernier:
They do.
Morning Mays:
Yeah.
Stephen Semple:
Yeah. Morning really finds that. For background for people, there’s this traditional belief amongst whiskeys that the really smoky, peaty, harsh whiskeys are a thing that guys like, and women tend to more like the light, bourbon, sweet bourbons and Irish whiskeys. I’m going to tell you, our relationship shatters that myth. Morning, like, I mean, if you open it and it smells like the campfire from two tables over, Morning is like, “What’s that? I need to try that.” Yeah. Yeah.
Dave Young:
I go for the sweet stuff. I head straight … My favorite is a French single malt that tastes like birthday cake.
Stephen Semple:
You see, we’re going to have four perspectives on this.
Morning Mays:
Dave, you like the icing on the cake?
Dave Young:
Absolutely. Yeah. You like [inaudible 00:03:17].
Stephen Semple:
Well, this is going to be interesting then, so that’s great.
Dave Young:
[inaudible 00:03:23] in the bottom of the oven.
Stephen Semple:
What we’re saying is Dave’s here. I’m next to Dave and then Gary is between Morning and I. This is going to make for a really interesting tasting.
Dave Young:
I’m easily within reach. Look at this. I can go right … That’s the one.
Stephen Semple:
That’s the one? Okay.
Dave Young:
That’s the one I like.
Gary Bernier:
That’s Dave’s [inaudible 00:03:41].
Dave Young:
Then it’s …
Morning Mays:
Okay.
Dave Young:
Darn it, [inaudible 00:03:45].
Stephen Semple:
Yeah. For background, Dave is calling in from the whiskey vault at the Wizard Academy and, as you can tell, the whiskey vault has got a lot of whiskey in it. This is going to be cool. Just as a reminder, Uncle Nearest is a Tennessee whiskey. What that means is it’s made the way that a bourbon is made in terms of it having to be at least 51% corn. What separates a Tennessee whiskey from a bourbon is its charcoal filter. That’s what basically makes it a Tennessee whiskey.
Stephen Semple:
This whiskey that we’re tasting comes from a recipe from Uncle Nearest, Nearest Green, who taught Jack Daniels how to distill. It was through Reverend Call that Jack Daniels and Nearest Green met one another, and Nearest Green was a former slave in Lynchburg, Tennessee who went on to become this great distiller with Jack Daniels. It was through discovering this story that Fawn Weaver basically fell in love with the story, bought the original farm and distiller it was on, and they are now making Uncle Nearest whiskey in honor of Nearest Green.
Dave Young:
What a great honor. I love this story. It’s just fabulous. Are you going to pass the bottle through or what?
Stephen Semple:
Oh, yeah. Okay. Here you go, Dave. Here you go, Dave. Through the magic of …
Dave Young:
I thought you’d never ask.
Stephen Semple:
Enough talking and now let’s get to drinking. There’s definitely a sweetness on the nose.
Dave Young:
I’m not big into bourbon either but I do like the sweetness of this. Can you smell the difference between yours and Morning’s?
Stephen Semple:
Oh, we have [inaudible 00:05:50].
Dave Young:
You both have been sitting [inaudible 00:05:53].
Stephen Semple:
This is the one that’s been sitting out.
Dave Young:
Ah, okay.
Morning Mays:
We have the fresh pour versus the one that’s been sitting.
Stephen Semple:
You have a better nose than I do.
Morning Mays:
Always.
Gary Bernier:
I smell the fresh oak on this coming through.
Dave Young:
It’s very sweet. I like it. I like it a lot.
Morning Mays:
The one that’s been sitting isn’t as sweet, on the nose.
Stephen Semple:
The one that’s been sitting is not as sweet on the nose is what you’re feeling?
Morning Mays:
Yeah.
Stephen Semple:
Interesting. How’s the [inaudible 00:06:23].
Dave Young:
The story comes through as well.
Morning Mays:
[inaudible 00:06:27].
Dave Young:
It’s delightful. Yeah.
Stephen Semple:
What do you think, Dave?
Dave Young:
Drink me.
Stephen Semple:
What’s interesting is because, even though, Tennessee whiskeys are still done in a charred or toasted barrel, I’m not really getting much smoke through this.
Morning Mays:
I’m not. No.
Stephen Semple:
How about you, Gary?
Gary Bernier:
Not smoke but I do taste the char. I can taste the char, so the nose I was picking up, the oakiness, the tannins, but I can sort of taste the charcoal filter, which, for me, is nice. I like it. I’m with Dave, this is a sweet bourbon.
Stephen Semple:
You get more of that char sort of I think on the finish. Yeah. There’s a finish … For me, [inaudible 00:07:14].
Gary Bernier:
What was interesting for me was the first sip is never best sip but this one … Man, you got a lot of flavor out of that first sip when it was awaking your mouth up. I was quite surprised by that.
Dave Young:
Yeah.
Stephen Semple:
Yeah. It’s definitely a sweet whiskey. There’s no question about that. What’s your thoughts on it, Morning?
Morning Mays:
It reminds me of a sugar cookie.
Stephen Semple:
So sweet?
Morning Mays:
Sweet. Yeah.
Stephen Semple:
What I’m going to guess here [inaudible 00:07:45].
Morning Mays:
This one is for you, Dave.
Dave Young:
Cheers.
Gary Bernier:
What’s interesting is they made this 50% alcohol by volume or just 100 proof right on the dot, which you don’t see that often, right?
Stephen Semple:
Right. No. You really don’t. You either see it as being more or being less. That’s interesting, there is a little bit different flavor profile.
Morning Mays:
Okay.
Stephen Semple:
Well, I’m not going to taint …
Gary Bernier:
Stephen, how quickly is this bourbon flying off the shelves in the US?
Stephen Semple:
Well, I know the growth rate that they had on it has been phenomenal and they’re building a new fancy distillery, so it’s doing incredibly well. I think what’s a real tribute to them is through the pandemic, while the pandemic was good for alcohol sales, the pandemic was not good for craft brewers or craft distilleries. The craft industry really got hit. They managed to really maneuver their way through that through some really innovative marketing ideas, that they did.
Stephen Semple:
They really seized it as an opportunity and kept driving things forward, and now they’re actually doing a fair bit of merchandising. I forget the guy’s name. They ended up hiring a person from Disney, who basically ran merchandising at Disney, and is now doing merchandising at the distillery.
Gary Bernier:
Cool. Yeah. I know you said it was going quickly. In other words, that it was growing quickly. [inaudible 00:09:42].
Stephen Semple:
Yeah. They were having quarters of double and triple percent growth. They had a period where they ran out of product. You know, the cool thing is when they ran out of product, they just kept advertising.
Dave Young:
That’s the way to do it.
Gary Bernier:
Well, it’s not unusual for a relatively new distillery to run out of product, because the first couple of years, you don’t have the capability to distill as much as you do in the later years. As you grow, you increase your distilling capabilities, which means then you have to increase your barreling capabilities just to meet the aging requirements. Yeah. I’m not surprised that they tripped over that little growth spurt problem.
Stephen Semple:
Well, what everybody forgets about when you do a whiskey, you’re having to figure out your demand three, four, five years out, right? Today’s distilling is not today’s whiskey.
Dave Young:
You’ve got inventory that just has to wait.
Stephen Semple:
Yeah. Well, this is why we see a lot of distillers start off making moonshine and gins and vodkas, because for a gin, it’s a six month period from start to being able to have it on the shelf. It’s not unusual that distillers will make a moonshine or a gin, sell that while the other is aging, in order to bring in sales and cashflow.
Dave Young:
I think with vodka, you can just sell it as it drips out of the sill.
Stephen Semple:
Pretty much. Pretty much. Yeah. Gin, you still got to do a little … Put some other flavors and things like that in there. There’s still the infusions. It’s still a much quicker product than a whiskey.
Stephen Semple:
Yeah. It’s interesting. Morning and I, last time we were in Kentucky and Tennessee, we went to a lot of the new distillers that have been popping up, because there’s so many that have popped up along the whiskey trail. Some of them were at a stage where they weren’t making whiskey yet, and they were selling their moonshine.
Morning Mays:
Which was fabulous.
Stephen Semple:
Oh, there’s some that you went …
Morning Mays:
Love the moonshine.
Stephen Semple:
“Man, these are going to be awesome.” When you’re drinking a moonshine, and you go, “Woo, this is going to be a great whiskey”, it’s like, yeah, we got to travel back there because there’s some places that are going to be producing some unbelievable whiskeys. Unbelievable whiskeys. Because their moonshines were really good.
Dave Young:
I’m glad we were able to do this.
Stephen Semple:
Gary, your final thoughts on it?
Gary Bernier:
This is a great representation of a Tennessee whiskey. Right? Little bit sweeter than I was expecting. You know? Mostly the Kentuckys have that sweet, a little bit more smoky, so this one is sweet but without that deep smokiness. This is a very nice sipping bourbon and I could see you using this for any mixed cocktail that calls for bourbon and being quite happy with it. I think it’s a great bourbon to have in your collection and to share with friends. I think it’s very nice.
Dave Young:
Can I add what I like about it now?
Stephen Semple:
Sure. Yeah.
Dave Young:
I have a different take on whiskeys that I like, because I don’t have the palette, I don’t have the nose that so many of you have for what do I like? What do I don’t like? Am I getting periwinkle or sassafras or a little … I don’t know. It’s whiskey, right?
Stephen Semple:
You don’t even know what sassafras is.
Gary Bernier:
I thought he was saying kiss my ass.
Dave Young:
But here’s what I like about it, now I have one more whiskey in my arsenal that I have a personal story to tell about. To me, sharing a whiskey with someone is almost always about what’s the story? What’s the relationship that I have with the whiskey? I don’t have the tools that a lot of whiskey somms have to pick out the different flavors and aromas in the bottle. I know what I like, I know what I don’t like but I can tell a story about this whiskey now. We did a podcast about it.
Dave Young:
As my repertoire of whiskeys that I can tell personal stories about grows, I think that helps me be able to help people enjoy something about a whiskey that … Especially if they’re not that into whiskey, everybody loves storytelling. Uncle Nearest, man, it’s a great whiskey, it’s got a great story, and now I have a story to tell about it. To me, that’s what I get excited about.
Stephen Semple:
That’s cool. That’s cool. Morning, what’s your thoughts on it?
Morning Mays:
How am I going to top Dave?
Stephen Semple:
That’s what happens. Sometimes when you sit back …
Morning Mays:
You never want to follow Dave.
Stephen Semple:
Well, that’s what happens when you don’t get in first. Sometimes you end up being last and you’re having to follow Dave.
Morning Mays:
I should have raised my hand a little bit sooner I guess. I will say I actually like it better when it sits, because, for me, when it’s so sweet on my nose, that’s kind of … It’s a deal breaker a little bit, I would say.
Morning Mays:
As it sat, what was really nice was that oaky flavor that Gary was talking about sort of blended a little bit better with that sweetness and so it cut that for me. It’s actually quite drinkable at this point.
Dave Young:
I get that. Yeah.
Stephen Semple:
You know, it’s really interesting. I think this is one of the things I always find fascinating about whiskeys is … And one of the things we haven’t done is adding a little bit of water to it, but you add a little bit of water or even just this full idea, and I’ve learned this one from Morning, because I didn’t used to notice it is we think about wines opening, right? We’re very used to pour a red wine and let it open and a half an hour later, red wine can have a very, very different flavor profile as that wine opens.
Stephen Semple:
It’s really interesting that one of the things I’ve learned from Morning is the same can happen with a whiskey, that you pour a whiskey and let it sit for a little bit, that its character can change a little bit as well. Now it tends to happen faster than with a wine, but there’s no question that there’s those character changes that come from just pouring it and letting it sit for a little bit and get some of the alcohols released and a little bit of air into it. It’s cool. It’s cool.
Stephen Semple:
Dave, I think one of the things I always love hearing from you is what’s the definition of the best whiskey?
Dave Young:
Oh, our definitely at Whiskey Marketing School is the best whiskey is the whiskey you like to drink, however, the hell you like to drink it. One of the things, when we work one of these medallions to a new whiskey somm that’s come through the Whiskey Marketing School, this thing weighs almost a pound. Right? My neck is tired of having to sip. Literally, it’s like putting a pound … Think of what a pound of frozen ground beef weighs. Right? And putting that around your neck.
Dave Young:
We tell people, look, if you can put this on and still be pretentious about whiskey, we’re going to come kick your ass. Right? This is absurd. This is crazy. Right? It’s cool too and it gives you a story to tell when you put it on. Somehow, a little pressure on the back of the neck from this thing, it does make me smell things that I wouldn’t maybe catch.
Stephen Semple:
The only extra that I like to add to Dave’s definition is my favorite whiskey is the whiskey that I like the most at the cheapest price. You know?
Dave Young:
[inaudible 00:18:02].
Stephen Semple:
I love it when you find that one where you go, “Wow. I like this and the price? That’s it? This is great.”
Dave Young:
Dude, I love whiskey that somebody else bought.
Stephen Semple:
Yeah. You see, you have that in your background there.
Dave Young:
Somebody else bought all of this.
Stephen Semple:
Anyway, this was fun. For people, if you … To Dave’s point, it’s a great story. Go check out the Uncle Nearest Podcast. It is such a fascinating story about Jack Daniels and Nearest Green.
Dave Young:
Yeah.
Gary Bernier:
But don’t skip the whiskey. [inaudible 00:18:43]. Go get a bottle.
Dave Young:
Thanks for listening to the podcast. Please share us. Subscribe on your favorite podcast app and leave us a big, fat, juicy five star rating and review at Apple Podcasts. If you’d like to schedule your own 90 minute Empire Building session, you can do it at EmpireBuildingProgram.com.
